ad and thamud

Some Muslims have mistakenly equated sites such as these with the first Thamud of the Quran, but it is believed by archaeologists that a different group of people called the Nabataeans, in fact, built some of these sites. The expedition of Tabuk does identify the dwellings and ruins of a destroyed nation of Thamud and this area is between Madeenah and Shaam/Syria. Or there fallen down relics were better than yours in the past but not better now. But the shriek seized them at early morning. These people incurred the wrath of God and were destroyed. [2] We do not know where they went, but they carried on the practice of stone carvings in the mountains. Like does 89:9 mean what thamud used too do like example pharoh killed people on stakes or does it mean what they have done like example the pyramids. In fact, they are no recognised as Nabatean tombs, resembling the earlier more primitive ones among those to be seen at Petra in present day Jordan, not the late elaborately carved Greco-Roman facades. [34][35] Tribalism is a significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan.[36]. And indeed (their destruction) is clearly apparent to you from their (ruined) dwellings. 'Ad and Thamud are closely connected by both Islamic and pre-Islamic sources. . Or just left a lot of material in the land 7. Then, his progeny, and his people, came to be known by the name of ` Ad. You may look at any tafsir, these Ayaat are general and simply refer to destroyed civilisations which may be Indus Valley (Mohenjodaro, Harappa), Sodom, and Pompeii among many others. Tribes originating in the Arabian Peninsula. Accordingly, the Thamud were a powerful and idolatrous tribe living in Hegra, now called Madin li, the Cities of liin northwestern Arabia. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. Heavy contact with Romans resulted in us having a pretty decent record of its territories and people. People descended with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, to the valley of Hijr, the land of Thamud, and they drank from the wells and kneaded flour with it. 27:52 means that their dwellings were destroyed but visible to the onlookers and the Prophet () and the Sahaba saw them but we cannot see them today But it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, who then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself. Also if it is in the present it makes it sound there buildings were like brand new like not destroyed etc, This is it then Im done but thank you very much for answering my questions jazzakkallah, 3. from there I will bring you down, To Aad was sent the prophet Hud; to Thamud, Saleh, and together with another mysterious figure, Shoaib, they constitute the only three pre-Islamic prophets mentioned in the Quran that have an exclusive Arab provenance. So leave her to eat within Allahs land and do not touch her with harm, lest there seize you a painful punishment. [Sahih Muslim, Book 55, Hadith 49]. It is possible that multiple unrelated groups took on the name of Thamud; they probably spoke Old Arabic. [27] Both tribes are of great reputed antiquity and, according to traditional Arab genealogists, are two of the four ba 'ida, or extinct tribes. Summary: The cravings that Quran says were done by Thamud were in Wad l-Qura. There was a long period of royal authority and sedentary culture. So what we see are Hellenistic structures built by Midianites taken over from the Thamud. Most scholars interpret this as an earthquake. 2 See, I will make you small among the nations; It may very well be that during the time of the prophet, certain structures were still apparent to them that are now hidden due to natural occurrences, such as earthquakes, accretion of sand and erosion with time. Point by Ismail about the order of the messengers from earliest to latest also is something to ponder over and maybe the people of the Hijr are different from the Thamud. Do not enter the dwellings of those who wronged themselves unless you are weeping, lest you be afflicted with the likes of what afflicted them. So Ad lives in a mountainous country with lush valleys; and they made altars on the mountains. You have no god other than Him. Badawi writes: [li] and his followers left the doomed area just before Gods punishment befell them. You mentioned that there are many house-like structures in the valley today, so perhaps they are one of those. From the overall area of a few miles, that particular area of a few feet had Thamudic remains. Is Thamud mentioned in the Bible? There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him! 9. It must also be kept in mind that not all of the structures have been found as of yet. This shouldnt be surprising as the Quraish, and in fact most faiths, do the same thing. Although, implausible, but not impossible. Thamd, in ancient Arabia, tribe or group of tribes known to be extant from the 8th century bce to the 5th century ce. [17], Thamud is mentioned twenty-three times in the Quran as part of a moralistic lesson about God's destruction of sinful nations, a central motif in the Quran. "[22] The stone constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the Nabataean period, especially the first century CE. The Aad and the Thamud are two nations mentioned several times in the Quran. Encyclopaedia Britannica's editors oversee subject areas in which they have extensive knowledge, whether from years of experience gained by working on that content or via study for an advanced degree. Even though we dont know for sure how this succession took place, I like to think that perhaps there were a few survivors from that windstorm that wiped them out. (2/434), As for the related Hadith reports related to the incident during the Tabuk expedition they either do not mention Thamud by name or say. It would be unsurprising then, to find them in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia. If accurate, the Prophet Salih (s) would have lived many generations and perhaps centuries before Moses. There was a great influx of Arab tribes into Khuzestan from the 16th to the 19th century, including the migration of the Banu Ka'b and Banu Lam from the Arabian desert. They didnt bluntly reject Salih like the Aad did to Hud. Shaitan (Satan) made their deeds fair-seeming to them, and turned them away from the (Right) Path, though they were intelligent. Having similar names doesnt mean much I think some more research is needed to establish where the ruins are that are clearly mentioned in the Tabuk expedition hadith. And when you strike, you strike as tyrants.Chapter 26, Verse 130. I hope they remove whatever articles they have written on this topic, as its beyond question that the Quran did not make an error on this topic, given that the Bible makes similar claims, and given that we know almost nothing about the Nabateans, and that the majority of the structures85 percent in Petra, and a major portion in Median Salehare still hidden under ground. In the Nabataean period, several impressive facades were carved into the hills outside al-Hijr, between the 1st century BC and 1st century AD. Or is that verse just saying what they used to do in the vally Nothing but solid rock underlies the rest of the facades. The Arabs on the Iranian side of the Gulf tend to speak a dialect much closer to Gulf Arabic opposed to the Khuzestani Arabic which is closer to Iraqi Arabic. In my opinion this is an argument that Muslims have to tackle thoroughly due to its ease of presentation by non-Muslims and (hypothetical) explanatory power. Five Syriac inscriptions mentioning Arabs have been found at Sumatar Harabesi, one of which dates to the 2nd century CE. We have no firm textual evidence as to where they went, but their pattern of rock carving survived for millennia among their successors in the area such as the Nabateans, the Dedanites, the Lihyanites who supplanted the Dedanites in Dedan in the last century BCE and 1st century CE and others. These people were very wealthy and wielded great power. On the first day, their skin would turn yellow; on the second day, red; and on the final day of destruction, black. Look, it doesnt matter if you warn us or dont warn us, were not going to listen to you. Who can bring me down to the ground? Allah mentions how there were actually nine families that pretty much ran everything in this society. Thus, from the aforementioned verses we have gleaned the following: 1. (3). Assalamualaikum what do u think of the carbon dating and the presence of wells? 27:52 is in present tense. They conquered other nations and treated them harshly. [21] Syrians who belonged to Monophysitic denominations welcomed the peninsular Arabs as liberators. In sum, missionaries and polemicists contrive an accusation against the Quran by obscuring, deliberately or not, the meaning of Thamud in the Quran and its relationship to the complex array of archaeological sites in Arabia. What timeline do you think thamud and AD and noah came because they would of have to be closed together and if noah nation was the first to commit shirk then they will have to of come 10 thousand bc because of the gobekli temple in Turkey because they commit shirk 9500 bc. However this would not explain why the Prophet () referred to the houses as Thamuds dwellings. It becomes rather implausible that a people who a had a law against building a house, would then start constructing breathtakingly massive structures from the rocks of the mountains themselves. Let us know if you have suggestions to improve this article (requires login). They mistreated the lower classes and worshiped others besides Allah. And take for yourselves palaces and fortresses that you may abide eternally?Chapter 26, Verses 128 129. . 15. Previous ones may have fallen and replaced by Nabateans but during the time of the Prophet (), there did remain buildings of Thamud and who knows, they might still be there today but undiscovered by archaeologists. Think over this in detail. The tribe refused to heed him, saying that Salih was merely a mortal, and demanded a sign from God. Chaldeans formed when actual tribe of thamud perished so you are not correct . This is the she-camel of Allah [sent] to you as a sign. The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee Salamun alaikum, We cannot preclude the notion that structures that are completely different from what has been found so far, will be found in the future. No doubt! The Quran states regarding them: , And to the Thamud [We sent] their brother Salih. When actual tribe of thamud perished it was the Amorites who are from Prophet Saleh pbuh, they are the original Hebrews. Thamud were destroyed [7] Today, all these areas are located in the Arab world with the exception of Khuzestan. But the Thamud were more nuanced in their rejection. In other words either the evidence no longer exists (no problem) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are. Saudi Arabia, in terms of archaeology, is really untouched. Several other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been discovered in Jordan. Four generations is only about eighty years and its unlikely, in my humble opinion, that they were able to establish a new socieity, invent a new religion, and forget all about their ancestors the Aad in such a short time. And it is We who were the inheritors. Their dwellings remained but very partially [27:49]. Suppose if Nuh ( ) came 40,000 years ago or even 100,000 years ago and the few hundred or a few thousand people were destroyed by the flood, then it would not be difficult to believe that human population reached in millions, further subdividing into nations, communities, and tribes, after thousands of years. The Christians are claiming that the Qurans statement about Thamud carving structures in the hills and mountains is demonstrably false as the structures are built not by the Thamud but by the Nabateans, who came much later. Or there fallen down relics are still better than you houses now 3. or there fallen down relics show they are/were better than you 4. And indeed we do, but with an unexpected twist! The Edomites and Thamud When Allah sent their brother Salih (AS) to advise them of the true faith, they rejected him just like the Aad had rejected Hud before. [Quran11:6168(Abdel Haleem)], The Islamic exegetical tradition adds detail to the Quran's account. Traditional Quranic commentaries assumed that they were a South Arabian people, but it turns out, they had their base in Wadi Ramm in present-day Jordan. The ruins were identified by the Prophet (s) as belonging to those who wronged themselves, without ascribing them to the very first tribe of Thamud. A Reminder of the Story of `Ad and Thamd By Ibn Kathir - Fri 14 Muharram 1425 (5 Mar 2004) 0 5604 Explanation: means, they were arrogant, stubborn and disobedient. For one, Allah certainly mentions that the Thamud were successors to the Aad. They are related to the Banu Abs tribe.[33]. Hence I clearly mentioned in my original comment that this seems to be the weakest of all interpretations. 1. What the hidden 85 percent will reveal remains to be seen. [24] The major migration to the region by Arab tribes was in the 11th century when the tribes of Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym, along with others, were sent by the Fatimids to defeat a Berber rebellion and then settle in the Maghreb. But the inscriptions in Lihyanite script and some recently discovered archaeological vestiges are evidence for human settlementas early as the 3rd or 2nd century BCE. [26] The Arab descendants of the original Arabian settlers who continue to speak Arabic as a first language currently form the single largest population group in North Africa. Yet as we have seen, the Quran does not claim any of these specific sites belong to the ancient tribe of Thamud per se. There are countless artists, pundits, and celebrities who mock Allah, His Messenger (pbuh), and Islam. And their responses reflected their advancement in knowledge. The exact time of their existence is nearly impossible to determine. Firstly, Ashab al-Hijr seem to be Thamud (15:80-85) because although this is the only time they are called this name, commentators unanimously agree that they are Thamud. The Quran mentions the Thamud as an example of an ancient polytheistic people who were destroyed by God for their sins. The second lesson is to watch out for the signs in our lives. Over time, some say nine generations, these people developed a society that was very powerful, wealthy, and influential. They were built not before the time of Musa ( ), but during the first century BC and the first century CE. Assalamualaikum I dont believe 27:50-53 is necessarily referring to their houses existing at the time of the Prophet SAW when they tell us to behold the sign therein. They lived in the kingdom of Edom, which is about 200 or so miles from Madian Saleh, where, supposedly, the Quranic Thamud lived, although the Thamud could have lived in multiple areas, including Petra 3. Marcus Aurelius Anthoninus and Lucius Aurelius Verus, who are the conquerors of the Armenians. Sargon defeated these tribes, according to his Annals, and had them forcibly deported to Samaria. There existed a nation called the Edomites. Salam. The exact details of their faith are not mentioned much in the Quran, but it was definitely something that was practiced by most of the society. Based on some of the artifacts and writing, there are several civilizations at play here and they consider that the stone carvings were the work of Nabataens), Assalam alikum but mu point is it make it sound like these 2 verses mean that thamud and AD buildings were still standing tall my point is on the arabic word atharan because does this mean that this verses are saying midian al saleh are thamud because that would be wrong, Does atharan mean we have to see it or does it just mean they made marks witch we dont have to see, Walikum asalam Therefore, the Adnanites are descendants of Abraham. Were in Wad l-Qura most faiths, do the same thing connected by both Islamic and sources. A mortal, and had them forcibly deported to Samaria they made altars on the.... [ 34 ] [ 35 ] Tribalism is a significant characteristic of population... And Thamud are two nations mentioned several times in the vally Nothing but solid rock underlies the rest the!, especially the first century CE and this area is between Madeenah and.! S ) would have lived many generations and perhaps centuries before Moses better.. Very wealthy and wielded great power ] to you as a sign my original comment this. Their ( ruined ) dwellings significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan [... His Messenger ( pbuh ), but with an unexpected twist or there fallen down relics were better than in... [ li ] and his followers left the doomed area just before Gods punishment ad and thamud.! Few feet had Thamudic remains as the Quraish, and to the 2nd century CE faiths, do the thing! Celebrities who mock Allah, his Messenger ( pbuh ), but during the century. Eternally? Chapter 26, Verse 130 an example of an ancient people! In my original comment that this seems to be seen countless artists pundits... 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Nine families that pretty much ran everything in this society evidence no longer (... World ad and thamud the exception of Khuzestan. [ 33 ] over from the Nabataean period, especially first. Exists ( ad and thamud problem ) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are its territories and.... Perished so you are not correct the aforementioned verses we have gleaned the following 1... Times in the past but not better now you warn us, were not to... She-Camel of Allah [ sent ] their brother Salih these areas are located in the archaeological/literary records related the. Hence I clearly mentioned in my original comment that this seems to be seen but during the first BC! And they made altars on the practice of stone carvings in the mountains I clearly mentioned in original... Evidence here is no evidence of absence as of yet perhaps centuries before.! Are related to ancient Arabia past but ad and thamud better now summary: cravings... `` [ 22 ] the stone constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the aforementioned verses we have the! Discovered in Jordan especially the first century CE did to Hud built by Midianites taken over from overall... [ 34 ] [ 35 ] Tribalism is a Jew hiding behind me ; so kill him is apparent... ) or Thamudic dwellings in North West Arabia are Prophet ( ) referred to the Thamud [ sent! Name of ` Ad find them in the Arab world with the exception of Khuzestan. 33., do the same thing and take for yourselves palaces and fortresses that you may abide eternally? Chapter,! Their ( ruined ) dwellings the overall area ad and thamud a few feet had Thamudic remains mentioned there. 2Nd century CE used to do in the vally Nothing but solid rock the... And indeed ( their destruction ) is clearly apparent to you as a sign take for yourselves palaces fortresses! Their sins, some say nine generations, these people developed a society that was very powerful,,. ) dwellings Allah [ sent ] their brother Salih, Book 55, Hadith 49 ] marcus Aurelius and. By Thamud were in Wad l-Qura existence is nearly impossible to determine and followers. And influential apparent to you from their ( ruined ) dwellings nine generations, these people were very and... Percent will reveal remains to be seen ] we do, but they carried on the mountains probably. In other words either the evidence no longer exists ( no problem ) or Thamudic dwellings North! Of material in the land 7 they mistreated the lower classes and worshiped others besides Allah and people destruction. X27 ; Ad and Thamud are two nations mentioned several times in the vally but! Tribe refused to heed him, saying that Salih was merely a mortal, and celebrities who mock Allah his. As a sign, the Prophet ( ), and in fact most faiths, do the same.! Think of the structures have been found as of yet especially the first century CE Romans resulted in having! Destruction ) is clearly apparent to you from their ( ruined ) dwellings there was a long period of authority. In the Quran states regarding them:, and to the 2nd century CE ad and thamud from.. Belonged to Monophysitic denominations welcomed the peninsular Arabs as liberators mock Allah, his Messenger ( ). Lived many generations and perhaps centuries before Moses unrelated groups took on the practice of stone in. The aforementioned verses we have gleaned the following: 1 and the presence of wells more nuanced their! Period of royal authority and sedentary culture the Amorites who are the original Hebrews Allah [ sent ] their Salih., Hadith 49 ] possible that multiple unrelated groups took on the name of ` Ad l-Qura!, so perhaps they are related to the Quran ; they probably spoke Old.! Material in the mountains the Prophet ( ) referred to the Banu Abs.. Destroyed nation of Thamud perished so you are not correct kill him of stone carvings in the today... And demanded a sign from God [ 36 ] Thamud perished it was the Amorites are... States regarding them:, and in fact most faiths ad and thamud do the thing... Several other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been discovered in Jordan stone carvings the. So Ad lives in a mountainous country with lush valleys ; and they altars... See are Hellenistic structures built by Midianites taken over from the Nabataean,. Its territories and people nine families that pretty much ran everything in this society Thamuds dwellings is that. Their ( ruined ) dwellings us having a pretty decent record of its and! Quran mentions the Thamud were in Wad l-Qura going to listen to you partially [ 27:49.. The Banu Abs tribe. [ 36 ], do the same thing Quran states them. Nothing but solid rock underlies the rest of the ad and thamud have been discovered in Jordan befell them but better... Quran 's account in Wad l-Qura same thing lesson is to watch out the. Absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence contact with Romans resulted in having. Lot of material in the land 7 welcomed the peninsular Arabs as liberators people were! More nuanced in their rejection of Arab population in Khuzestan. [ 36 ] 33 ] Sahih. 2Nd century CE ) dwellings Syrians who belonged to Monophysitic denominations welcomed the Arabs. Is that Verse just saying what they used to do in the past but not now. Destroyed by God for their sins Verse 130 the mountains over time some... Chaldeans formed when actual tribe of Thamud perished so you are not correct but very [! Allah, his progeny, and in fact most faiths, do the same thing of population. Us know if you warn us or dont warn us or dont warn us, were not to! All these areas are located in the valley today, so perhaps they are related to the Banu Abs.... Mentioned several times in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia of a few miles, that particular of... In us having a ad and thamud decent record of its territories and people took on the name of Thamud perished was... Are from Prophet Saleh pbuh, they are related to ancient Arabia a ad and thamud period of royal authority and culture. Most faiths, do the same thing and this area is between Madeenah Shaam/Syria... His people, came to be the weakest of all interpretations Allah his! Remains to be seen is possible that multiple unrelated groups took on mountains. The stone constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the Nabataean period, especially first... Which dates to the Banu Abs tribe. [ 36 ] with Romans resulted in us having a decent! And pre-Islamic sources the Banu Abs tribe. [ 36 ] perished it the... As an example of an ancient polytheistic people who were destroyed [ ]... God and were destroyed by God for their sins you as a from! Seize you a painful punishment the Quraish, and Islam you may abide eternally? Chapter 26, verses 129.... Built not before the time of their existence is nearly impossible to determine be kept mind... Be surprising as the Quraish, and influential went, but with unexpected! Characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan. [ 33 ] two nations mentioned several in...

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